OVERFLOWING ANGER VS VOICES OF HOPE – THE WORLD AFTER THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD

Barbara Heineback, former communications executive and strategic consultant with the Clinton Administration, now lives in Australia. Speaking for The Sydney Institute’s “virtual” talks program, Barbara Heineback gave an historical perspective of Black Lives Matter, reflecting on the death of George Floyd and its aftermath – the impact both domestically and globally. She reflected on American leadership, the media madness and the coming Presidential election. On Tuesday 16 June 2020, Barbara Heineback recorded this as a YouTube video for The Sydney Institute followed by a discussion on the Black Lives Matter debate with Gerard Henderson.

OVERFLOWING ANGER VS VOICES OF HOPE – THE WORLD AFTER THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD

BARBARA HEINEBACK

Thank you for having me today and thank you Gerard, thank you Anne and The Sydney Institute. Before we get started I have a question and a request. Number one, my question. Have you ever needed to call the police when you are either needing some protection or you really felt like you were in serious danger, scared for your life? Think about that through this discussion. And consider what life would be like without police. Try to imagine how comfortable would that make you feel?

My topic as Gerard has said is “Overflowing Anger vs Voices of Hope”. Let’s start with Black Lives Matter. We’re going to talk about Black Lives Matter in an abbreviated perspective. The case of George Floyd and his death, the domestic and global impact of that, and the similarities and dissimilarities between these marches and demonstrations that we see now in 2020 as opposed to those in 1968 are all issues I want to address. And, I’d like to spend some time talking about victims. I feel that we must all do our part; each of us has to make a contribution when you want to bring about a viable change. With time permitting, I’ll also talk about American political leadership, as well as beyond the political. In other words, where are the leaders of America today? The voices have been very quiet. I shall address some of the media madness and comment a little on the US presidential coming election.

The movement Black Lives Matter began with the killing of Eric Garner, a black man, with a policeman’s chokehold in New York City in July 2013. Black Lives Matter was ignited, begun by three black women. They called it the new group Social Justice. It was made up of anti-fascists and was arguably a Marxist organisation. Today, BLM has about 40 chapters, domestically and internationally. Almost a month ago, when George Floyd was killed under a policeman’s chokehold it created a rise of people that started to demonstrate, but not like we demonstrated in 1968.

This was a demonstration that came about because people across the world were beginning to say enough is enough. There have been marches around the world in phenomenal proportions. And the best part about it, most of the marches that happened outside of the United States have been very peaceful. Thank heavens for that. With some of the marches in the United States we’ve had serious problems with looting, robbing and other violence, causing more of a distraction than a help. When you’re trying to bring about change, does it help when you have so many distractors in the mix? Or are you voicing anger without some inclusion of what is it that you really want to see changed and what you want to happen?

Our so-called American leadership, are missing in action. Where have they gone? From the White House to the Congress to the Senate, to our other leaders, blacks and whites. People have become very quiet. Is this because no one really knows what to do about this? It’s very sad that so much has gotten out of hand so egregiously over the last couple of decades. BLM has mushroomed into something that, now, no one knows quite how to handle.

I do truly believe that the brutality that was cast on George Floyd is inexcusable. Thank heavens we have it on camera. Some felt for a while that the protests were a case of people with a chip on their shoulders and it was their problem. It’s now quite clear what people have known for many years that there’s been a very one-sided case of the overwhelming brutality of policemen against black men and other men of colour. My first big applaud to Black Lives Matter is that they created a movement to bring attention to that police brutality which has gone global. They’ve had wonderful people marching with them across the nation and around the world and that is a big plus. I give Black Lives Matter credit for that.

My concerns about Black Lives matter is that the focus now, after almost a month of marching, is that we are yet to hear what is it that BLM wants. We have heard some of the mayors of cities talk about defunding the police, dismantling police forces altogether. Does that makes sense? What do they plan to replace it with?

Isn’t it interesting that one of the first things such mayors of cities started talking about is grabbing the money? All of a sudden we’re talking about defunding the police, moving the money into obscure community organisations and maybe a little training for the police and so on. But there’s no clear direction. No one is being clear about where the money is going to go. They simply want to snatch it from police departments. A lot of policemen today are leaving the service, or they’re just not showing up for work. Look at, for example, Seattle, where a protest group took over a part of Capitol Hill. Seattle is the capital of Washington State on the West Coast north of California and Oregon. In Seattle, the protesters took over a portion of the city of Capitol Hill they have called CHAS – The Capitol Hill autonomous zone. They renamed it the other day. Now it’s CHOP — Capitol Hill Occupied Protests, whatever that means.

You have shops and people working there and living close by. If they are interviewed and asked, “How do you feel about Black Lives Matter in this take over?” they either say nothing in front of the camera or they feel forced to say, “Well that’s all right.” They’re scared that their shops are going to be broken into if they don’t. One lady in the last 24-hours said that when she called police 18 times and there had been no response. The police are not going into this area. The mayor of Seattle and the governor have both said that they believe they can handle the matter peacefully without the President getting involved or trying to send in military or the National Guard. How is that going to work out? If they get away with it how many more cities are going to try to take over portions of maybe their capital cities, or just anywhere within the state? I have concerns.

Black Lives Matter had a wonderful opportunity, when the eyes of the world were upon them, to say something constructive about what their direction would be, what they might have wanted and where they were going to take the movement, going forward. It’s not just the issue of police brutality but all the other injustices that we should be fighting for that we were talking about some 20 and 30 years ago. I’m talking about real social justice or the injustice that Black Lives Matter say they stand for. Inequality of opportunities in the workplace. Job access. Getting the door open for the interview. There are many qualified people of colour where if a company or an organization knows they don’t look vanilla enough, they do not even make it to the interview. Can they get a shot at a better job or a better opportunity?

There is the matter of inequality in schools. Everything from school books to great teachers and to opportunities. I have a house in Maryland. My son is a grown man now, but at one time I walked over to one of the local primary schools and was going to volunteer half a day during the week. I felt I wanted to give something back and be engaged in my community. I said I’d come in and volunteer half a day weekly and was there anything I could do. They looked at me and said, “We don’t need any help.” This was an under served school with youngsters who had concerns. There was a lot of need, obviously, for people to come in and do something constructive. Sometimes when teachers are just getting by they don’t want anyone looking or noticing or meddling in what it is they are about. They are very happy to let the students who don’t want to learn stay in the back of the classroom, play on their phones or play games. They might teach a few of the students who are interested or just hand them something to read. We have too many teachers who are there for the pay cheque and retirement day. I accept that there are also wonderful teachers in inner city areas working with children’s needs above and beyond their duty.

There is also inequality of job promotion. Can you make it through the glass ceiling if you’re a woman? Can you make it to the C-level positions if you’re a man or woman of colour, or are coming from an under served community? COVID-19 has hit inner cities and people of colour far more than it has other populations in the US. There have been more deaths in the black communities in New York City, in cities in the south, in Texas and Louisiana. This is not a surprise. The needs in these communities is one of those issues that gets raised just before an election day when both the Democrats and Republicans pretend to care. But it becomes very quiet after election day and not much is done about it.

In 1968, I was a student at Howard University, Washington DC. We marched. Stokely Carmichael came on campus numerous times with the Black Power arm talking about improvements. More to the point, those marches began after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr and Bobby Kennedy, the president’s brother. Those two assassinations caused our marches in Washington DC.

What happened there? The 7th Street corridor and the shops along it were destroyed by the demonstrators. Many of those shops were owned by people of colour. Washington DC was rebuilt and downtown regenerated very quickly along with some of the other outlying communities. I moved abroad overseas for some years and came back to find that many of those same shops on 7^th Street were still boarded up and had not been rebuilt. It was the shops owned by people of colour and their communities which were the worst hit by those 1968 demonstrations. But they were the last to be rebuilt, the slowest to be rebuilt. Some of them were never rebuilt. Those people lost a livelihood and a job and an opportunity.

What was different in 1968 was that we marched for a purpose. We knew we wanted voter rights. We wanted more opportunities in the job market. And we were asking for healthcare. We had a lot of concern about schools and the bus issues and very specific guidelines of what we wanted changed. My concern with Black Lives Matter is what do they want?

BLM started in 2013. Early 2015, I marched in Maryland with them one night. It was a fairly new organisation. I wanted to see what it was about. I marched with them from the harbour all the way to the State Capitol building in Annapolis. When we got to the State Capitol building there was a monument, a statue. Some of the men in that march wanted to tear the statue down. I went over and talked to them, calmed them down a little bit. It didn’t get torn down that day although it did come down a couple of weeks later.

My concern with Black Lives Matter is, if you are going to bring about a positive change (and it is not even a month since the death of Floyd), why is it that people are going after the money and why are we focused on so many statues? These statues have been there for a couple of centuries or so. It’s not going to change lifestyles or make any improvements in communities of colour if a statue stays up another few months or if it comes down immediately. Should that be on the A list? What is driving the attention to statues rather than to the major concerns of social issues that I thought this organisation was standing for.

Statues are part of our history. You do not want to obliterate history or make it become invisible. With regard to statues, whether you want to put them in a museum or move them somewhere else, some of the people they honour have done some wonderful things for their country. We’ve had an issue here in Sydney trying to take down James Cook’s statue. What were the positive contributions he made? What are the problems we have with him? Where was he unfair, brutal, a slave owner? Whatever the real story, let’s give some balance and tell both sides. They always say if you don’t know your history, history is certain to repeat itself.

This past weekend with CHAZ or CHOP in Seattle should be enough to make us wonder if it is not time for current demonstrations to cease. My big concern is the language of Black Lives Matter which seems to make everyone feel that if you’re black you’re a victim. That’s not true. When you know your history you don’t feel like a victim. When you know your history, you have the knowledge to stand up for yourself and put that person in check. You can come back with the arguments, with the background on what you had to do to not have a door shut, or resist when someone tried to take your job back. At the White House, I was offered a job and, then, once hired, individuals tried to push me into a corner. I said, “I will not be a wallflower, I didn’t come here to be window dressing.” You need to know how to stand up for yourself.

 When my son was in school, he was offered an opportunity that was available to him. He had to take a test to get into a certain seminar program for achieving students. He made the cut, he did well on the exam. But I would never have heard about it had I not gotten a call from a teacher. [He did join the seminar]. But we have to parent. We have to take self-responsibility. The book They Came Before the Mayflower is about Africans who were in America, not as slaves, but as some of the first founders of America. When my parents took us to Williamsburg as a child, I remember every statue I saw, all of the images and all of the conversation. But there were no blacks having anything to do with the history. And if you saw a Native American Indian, it was a Native American with a feather in his hair. Nothing was told of the contribution they made teaching some of the European settlers what to do with corn.

We all have to take some responsibility, recognise some of our heroes, some of the scientists and people in every walk of life. When times get tough you don’t quit, you work harder rather than collapse and say, “Well I’m a victim and they don’t like me or they don’t want me to have an opportunity.” Maybe they don’t. You don’t stop just because someone doesn’t welcome you with open arms.

Let’s look at leadership. What’s been going on for the last month among our American leaders? The president’s been very quiet. He seems not to know what to do. Whereas he might have called out the military much sooner, he realised from others around him and also from what he’s looking at on television, that if he does this then things are probably just going to escalate that much more. His walk over to St John’s Church was a big mistake and I’m still surprised that his press corps didn’t work that out better and arrange for him to at least say something about St. John’s being burnt the night before. The nursery downstairs was still smouldering. The president is not a regular attendee of St John’s Church but he held up a Bible. Every president in recent history has attended that church a couple of times regardless of their faith. But this was just inappropriate.

With regard to the Democrats – Nancy Pelosi and others – about 12 of them finally came up from wherever they were hiding. They all wore the Ghananian kente cloth around their necks and tried to make some pronouncement of caring. But what have they done? And it’s not always just the white on black crime. It’s just as often black on black crime. We do not hear the media talking about that.

If we’re going to make any forward movement in these areas of correcting social change and making a difference, we’ve got to discuss some pretty uncomfortable issues. It is not enough to be politically correct. We have to talk about what can and needs to be done and have a little honesty. It will take both sides making adjustments and changes if you want, I believe, a better and an improved outcome in this.

OVERFLOWING ANGER VS VOICES OF HOPE – DISCUSSION – BARBARA HEINEBACK & ANNE HENDERSON

Gerard Henderson: Many thanks for a very stimulating talk Barbara. Towards the end of your talk you spoke a bit about some of the big American cities. It’s fair to say that if you’re an Australian watching mainstream Australian television, you would get the impression that somehow the Republican administration, and in particular President Trump, is largely or substantially responsible. But, as you well know, most of the cities in which there have been major disturbances have Democratic governors and Democratic mayors. So how do you see the problems that have emerged in these large American cities where the Republicans don’t have much control over?

Barbara Heineback: If we’re honest about it, when we look at Chicago, Atlanta, San Francisco, that are sliding backward in terms of the social discourse, these cities have become dilapidated. San Francisco is still quite a beautiful city, but it has areas that have become so dilapidated that it’s not the same city as when I lived there in the early 1990s. Right now we have women mayors in San Francisco, Chicago and Atlanta. In Atlanta and Chicago you have black American women who are the mayors. In Los Angeles a Latino man is the mayor. In San Francisco there’s a woman of colour who’s the mayor. And these cities have more problems over Memorial Day weekend, some 30-40 were shot in Chicago alone and about 18 died. These cities have been run by Democrats for the last 30 or 40 years. You have people like Maxine Waters in LA. She’s been talking about impeachment for Donald Trump even before he got to the White House. He did get impeached, as we know, by the Congress but everybody knew that wasn’t going to make any difference because the Senate would never impeach him and even if they had tried. Impeach him on what?

So, whereas the mainstream media would like the world to believe that Donald Trump is the cause of black Americans not having any equal opportunity, they’re not being well served by those in their state administrations. If we’re honest about it, and look at the facts, Donald Trump had improved the nation’s economy drastically before COVID19. Black unemployment had never been as low and black employment was never as high, until COVID19 came, and until Donald Trump came in. Donald Trump is the first white Republican candidate who actually went into some of the inner cities where there was a very high population of black people. He campaigned there and asked for their vote. Other Republican candidates haven’t bothered to do that. Trump has also generated legislation that will allow funds to go to some of the historically black colleges and universities in America. That’s something that presidents have talked about for the last three or four administrations. Donald Trump was the first one who actually made it happen and he did something about it.

Gerard Henderson: I recall in the campaign Trump famously said to an audience of black Americans, “Give me a go. Your plight can’t be any worse.” Or words to that effect.

Barbara Heineback: He said what have you got to lose. That was the slogan.

Gerard Henderson: What have you got to lose. Yes. And in a sense that was correct and as you know his black vote was higher than Mitt Romney’s black vote was four years ago.

Barbara Heineback: Or any other Republican.

Gerard Henderson: Just going back for a fraction to what you said about San Francisco. That’s Nancy Pelosi’s home territory isn’t it?

Barbara Heineback: Nancy Pelosi’s territory and Dianne Feinstein. I’ve been to Dianne Feinstein’s home for lunch a couple of times and a cocktail party there once. These ladies live in gated They talk a good line, they’re Democrats and they say that they’re for the underserved. But when you look at what they’ve done, it hasn’t been much. It hasn’t been much at all. Maxine Waters in the LA area gets the vote. She’s been a legislator in Congress for some 30 years. She doesn’t live in the area that votes her in, time and time again. She has her driver and these drivers all carry guns. She too lives behind a gated community. Dianne Feinstein is not in a gated community as such but there’s a policeman at the end of the road by the cul-de-sac where she lives. All this was 30 years ago when there were very few issues at all. Just because they’re Democrats, regardless of what the colour their skin is, if you haven’t done anything for me over these last three or four decades, Donald has a point, what have you got to lose?

Gerard Henderson: Now I’m not an expert on incarceration in the United States. As you know it’s high in the black community. But, as I understand it, President Trump tried to get some reforms there in the federal system to release blacks incarcerated for long terms for what didn’t seem to be all that serious crimes. Give us some background on that.

Barbara Heineback: We have something that’s been in play now called three strikes and you’re out. If a man is arrested because he was caught with a joint, with some marijuana, or somet such, if that’s his third strike then he can go to prison for that if it’s the third time he’s had a law enforcement strike against his name. Trump has been trying to get some of the petty stuff out of the way in order for people that are serving four and five and ten years reduced to something that makes sense for a term in prison or in jail. He’s trying to make some corrections there and for the systems in the states to begin to look at some equality. Why don’t we have more organisations who are putting some meat to the bone and who are being very specific with what it is they want to see? When I was more involved in politics in the States we had the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), the Urban League, and community leaders. There were so many of them who were involved in their own communities and they lived in these communities.

There was talk some years ago about the police force for each majority black community having a certain percentage, say 25/30 per cent of people on the police force looking like the people that live in that community. You would also like to see some of the police force and law enforcement come from that area, or look similar, and be very specific about what change would look like. Let’s not just look at it and study it but specifically what do we want to see changed and what will it take to have these improvements? It’s time to toss notions of political correctness out the window. If these marches have taught us nothing else, maybe that is one of the things they have shown us. Let’s make a list of these are the things that you guys are doing that bother me. Then I want to hear from you guys what are the things that the other side is doing that’s bothering them. We all have to agree to make some changes. I can’t dump it all on you. Even if the other person has been more in the wrong, it’s not a 60-40 game. Can we all come together and agree that we want to make some improvement? You have to have some self will and you have to take some self responsibility.

Gerard Henderson: But those organisations in the past you talked about, for the most part, their leaders, even in Australia, were known. They appeared on television here. From your description of Black Lives Matter, essentially, it doesn’t seem to have any clear leadership. I wouldn’t know. And the same with the left-wing organisation, the white ANTIFA, that doesn’t seem to have any leaders either.

Barbara Heineback: It has no leaders but it’s very well organised. They march during the day and they look very nice, they blend in with the rest of people. As soon as the sun goes down, they take off their little costumes and you see the black hoodies. All of a sudden the rails come down and they bring in massive covered up bricks and 50 guys and gals run in and throwing the bricks into the shop windows and wherever they are.

Gerard Henderson: In ANTIFA, what would the black percentage be?

Barbara Heineback: I don’t know what the percentage is but it’s small. It’s comparatively small and they worm their way in through Black Lives Matter and some of the Black Lives Matter people that are part of that organisation are destructive as well.

Gerard Henderson: So you’ve got a combination of destructive forces in ANTIFA and Black Lives Matter and, as you pointed out earlier, by and large they’re attacking the homes of the less privileged Americans.

Barbara Heineback: The less privileged Americans. And they’re thieves and thugs who have made very little contribution to society.

Gerard Henderson: Well, the most successful in a political sense as you know of American blacks is President Obama. So how do you think he’s responded to this? We haven’t heard that much from him either.

Barbara Heineback: We haven’t. I’ll tell you where I sit on Obama right now. We haven’t heard much about it as far as this huge issue is concerned. He did write an essay. I read that about two and a half weeks ago. It was okay. And he did it, you know, from his home. And he also had, I think, a town hall meeting from his home office. And he made some comments. he’s involved with an organisation that he’s working through and I know he’s trying to do a lot with youth domestically and internationally. Obama’s not the president right now. It’s not his responsibility. With it being such a hot potato, I’m sure that he’s happy he’s not the president right now. So I’ll give him a pass on that because this is on Donald Trump’s desk right now. He’s the commander in chief.

I voted for Obama twice because I really felt that he was what the country needed at the time, My concern with Barack Obama is he came to Washington from Chicago. He cut his teeth politically on being a community leader and helping the underserved and he was going to do so much. Why is it that when he left office he hasn’t he said anything about Chicago? Why hasn’t he said anything about the south side? Who was Obama’s chief of staff? Rahm Emanuel, during his first term for about a year and a half or two. Rahm Emanuel jumped ship, left the White House, went back to Chicago because he saw a chance to be mayor there. He was mayor for two terms, while Barack was still President. He did nothing for the south side by trying to stop the crime and he had more power than anyone. He was in authority and he could have called on his old buddy Barack Obama and together they could have put Chicago on a pedastal and said, “This is what you do to stop crime. This is how we garner our youth. This is how we make some improvements through community awareness and improvements.” He will not touch that. Nor will the media touch anything about all of the problems that are going on in these urban and inner cities today.

I would love to have a column or a byline or something in one of the papers to start to break down what some of the real issues are that people don’t understand. Sanctuary cities, border control, some of the other issues. I believe the demise and dilapidation of cities is something that needs corrections before it’s too late. Because we are moving toward anarchy. I don’t like to think about that, because I like to sleep well at night.

Gerard Henderson: Now, as you know, this non reporting of places like Chicago and other Democratic controlled cities…

Barbara Heineback: Detroit, Baltimore, just less than an hour’s drive north of DC.

Gerard Henderson: Minneapolis.

Barbara Heineback: Minneapolis, where George Floyd was killed.

Gerard Henderson: So what you’re dealing with here, not overwhelmingly but largely, is a white media not reporting this. This is not the blacks who aren’t reporting. A lot of the blacks are speaking out about it.

Barbara Heineback: Agree. The networks are owned by, you know …

Gerard Henderson: Wealthy Americans.

Barbara Heineback: White Americans. Wealthy white Americans. Absolutely.

Gerard Henderson: So what’s their problem?  Do they have a guilt problem? I mean why won’t they report …

Barbara Heineback: No, it’s not a guilt problem. They don’t like Donald Trump. Anyone except Trump. They call CBS, the Clinton Bureau of News or something like that. The networks and the Democratic Party, there’s a marriage there.

Gerard Henderson: You started off talking about 1968 and the marches which were essentially in Chicago, mainly outside the Democratic convention in Chicago. As you know that was in the lead up to the 1968 election and President Nixon, as he became, had a massive victory over Hubert Humphrey, the Democratic candidate. The reaction to those riots seemed to give Nixon many more votes than he otherwise would have got. I know we’re some months out and it’s always dangerous to make predictions about the future, as they say, but is this going to work for Trump? Or is it not going to work for Trump? Or is it too early to say?

Barbara Heineback: Yes it’s too early to say, especially now with COVID-19 and the way the tweets have had one audience and mainstream media another. I wouldn’t put 25 cents toward which way it’s going to go this early. But will that work for Trump? Possibly. I think he’s got to be thinking about that and considering that, hoping it’s the case. How long are you going to let it go on? And how do you stop it because there’s very strong feelings about not wanting the military to get involved. But the National Guard is another thing and there are plenty of them. So, we’ll see. What we’re looking at in Seattle is going to be a real test. If it starts to mushroom and if we start to see other takeovers in other states, other capitals, other large city communities, something soon is will have to be done.

Gerard Henderson: But the mayor of Seattle said this could be a period of love; a year of love I think she said.

Barbara Heineback: I asked myself what rock is she living under when I heard that comment. I don’t think I can dignify that with anything.

Gerard Henderson: But anarchy is always difficult, as we know from European history, from American history, anarchy is always very difficult to control. It’s not easy. But I suppose someone has to do it. Tell us about yourself. You grew up in the United States, in New York. But your parents came from Georgia and Florida. Did you experience much discrimination for yourself or your children?

Barbara Heineback: I didn’t experience discrimination as a young girl growing up. I don’t think my brother did either. We went first to Catholic schools and then to public schools. We were, by and large, in the minority and for some years the only children of colour in our schools. So there’s no point discriminating against us. We were just a little, you know, bleep on the screen. We were just neighbours and students and community members.

There were a few instances, I recall, when my son was in high school in La Jolla, California, a very nice community just north of San Diego in Southern California. In one instance when he was in high school, I came home from work one afternoon and my son would have been in the 10th grade I think, 9th or 10th. The school had about 1500/1600 students. Maybe there were 24 students of colour in the school. A number of the other youngsters of colour were bussed into the community. We lived just around the corner, really, up the hill. One afternoon I came home from work, and my son told me he had been harassed by a policemen that afternoon. He said that he was standing outside talking to two classmates and they were in the car. A policeman came by and stopped and said, “What are you doing in this neighbourhood?” My son said, “I live right there”. The policeman shushed my son off.

I was at the school the next morning when the principal got there. I went into his office and I shared with him that I wanted a policeman to come up. He said, “Do you wanted an apology for your son?” I said, “That’s not what I’m asking. I want a policeman to come up and I want him to meet not just with my son but with every young black man who’s attending high school here and to have a conversation with them, about what their rights are, what they’re not, what they can ask, what they can do. And I’d like that to happen in fast water.” It did happen about a week and a half later. I had a friend who dated a detective and she helped me get the right person who would go up and speak to these young men. So, you try to take a positive attitude but nip it in the bud when and where you can.

There was another incident that happened maybe a year or so later. My son was among the students who could take a test to get into what they called a special seminar program. Two classes that were going to be combined together for two class periods, run by two professors, a man and a woman, and they were going to be discussing civics and this and that. If you didn’t score high enough on this exam you wouldn’t be eligible for this two-year seminar. My son took the exam; he passed. I did not know about this until I got a call one evening from one of the professors, a woman. She asked me why I wouldn’t want my son to be in the seminar. I replied that I had no idea what she was talking about. Then she explained.

The next morning I was down at the school before it opened. I spoke to the and he shared with me that he did not think my son would be interested in the seminars as they were for students who excelled in everything. And I said, “Are you telling me mine is not?” He started to make some excuses and all and I said, “Why didn’t I know about this and why did my son not come home with some information that he had been tested?” The principal admitted he had just pulled his name out thinking he would not be interested. I said, “Are you his parent? You have no right. I’ve signed no authority over to you for this.” My son did end up being in the two-year seminar and it worked out okay.

Gerard Henderson: I know a case of a British politician of colour who was the UK Chancellor of the Exchequer – Sajid Javid. He was also told by a teacher once that he shouldn’t try too hard, and that he should be a television repairman. But he ended up becoming a millionaire and a successful politician. If you’ve got a parent like you who’s going to go up to the school and argue, you’re going to be in a better position than if you have a parent who doesn’t feel up to going up to the school and arguing. So, it’s a bit to do with the family structure again, isn’t it?

Barbara Heineback: You’re absolutely right, Gerard. Change starts at the home. With regard to the notion of political correctness, more people need to start looking at the parents and saying this is a problem. Your mother, your father, your parents should be responsible for certain things. And then it goes into the neighbourhood and then into the townships and the communities and both sides of an issue have to leave off arguing and yelling but concentrate on what is it you want to see change. What do you want? Black Lives Matter has been around for seven years and we still don’t know what they want, other than there’s a lot of fighting and a lot of discourse and disruption.

Gerard Henderson: I have a couple of questions that I haven’t covered that our members have sent in. Having lived in Australia and the US, do you compare the situations at all?

Barbara Heineback: With the Indigenous?

Gerard Henderson: Do you see comparisons or do you see differences?

Barbara Heineback: I see some comparisons. As I was about to move to Australia my son’s principal said to me, “Barbara don’t you know that’s a racist country?”. I said, “Where do you think we’ve been living all these years? Like we haven’t had our issues right here.” I added, “Give me a break. I’m willing to take my chances on this.” And so that’s another little sign. Yes, there are comparisons.

America has its issues with blacks. America has its issues with the Native Americans. Australia has its issues with Aboriginals. We can go around the globe. Very few countries will escape not having a culture in their country that they have tried to subjugate to a second class level. If you allow yourself to think you’re a victim, then you might not go up to the schools to ask for your rights, and you might not ask for the job. Then, if you get a job and they try to push you off to the corner, that’s when you raise your flag and say, “Wait a minute, I came here to do my job and all I’m asking for is to continue to earn my right toward accomplishment and career success.”

Gerard Henderson: So you’re broadly optimistic about both nations?

Barbara Heineback: I am. Because there’s enough talent in both for us both to do so well. But we’ve got to get back to honesty and talking about some things that will make us wriggle in our chairs a little bit. We need to get it out from under the carpets.

Gerard Henderson: It was quite an achievement to have such a position in the White House as you had with Rosalind Carter. So, tell us a little bit about Rosalind and then tell us a little about President Carter.

Barbara Heineback: I was very happy that Mrs Carter believed in me enough to bring me to the White House with her. She had four, five maybe six advance people while we were on the campaign trail and I was very, very pleased that out of us all she selected me to come with her. Maybe it’s because I gave a little bit more. Had I known what I was doing, maybe I would have just done what I needed to do to get by, and that would have been it. But I wasn’t very sure what it was I was doing during the campaign trail. So I did everything I was asked to do, and after I ticked off everything, I would ask what else could I do. It does pay to go the extra mile and I’m happy to go the extra mile.

Rosalind Carter was fair and comfortable in her own skin. But I recall how she was not initially comfortable talking to the press. I started her off in small groups. I had worked for CBS News and I understand when people are camera shy or shy of the press and the media. And we did a little acting before the interviews at the beginning. I remember once we landed somewhere and I had given her some talking points for her arrival statement and we only had about ten press people. She asked how come we had so few press. This meant she was starting to get comfortable with talking to the press.

Gerard Henderson: Carter won and then four years later he was defeated which must be devastating if you can’t do your second term. So, tell us a bit about the highs of his win and the lows of his defeat.

Barbara Heineback: The highs of his win was that he jumped right in. When you get to the White House, it’s pretty overwhelming. He’s smart and intellectual. If the president had a fault I think he intellectualised things a little too much. He tried very hard to please everyone and for a president taking over a major nation that is of course impossible. One of his drawbacks was that he could have done more, and he could have been more decisive about things. He was the great equaliser, trying to please all. When he lost the election, the President was befuddled. He took it as a personal loss but he wasn’t concerned I don’t think at all as much about having lost the election and his presidency. He felt like he had let the nation down and that he should have and could have done more. There’s a light at the end of every tunnel and I don’t think even to this day we’ve had a better president than Jimmy Carter and I would sing accolades for all of the work that he’s done internationally as an ex-President. With Habitat for Humanity, for instance, going around to so many nations and working as a mediator helping countries mediate major problems. And when they had a vote or an election going on, he’s managed to be one of the pillars of maintaining peace.

Gerard Henderson: So you’ll be voting in November?

Barbara Heinebeck: Oh yes.

Gerard Henderson: I won’t ask you how. But for now, terrific.

Barbara Heineback: Well I don’t even know if we know who we’re going to be voting for yet. I think things are just in that dynamic.

Gerard Henderson: You’re not sure Mr Biden will make it?

Barbara Heineback: I’m not sure if Mr Biden will make it. As for his vice-presidential candidate, I saw the list of six a day or two ago and it had at least two women of colour. It had Kamala Harris and another woman of colour.

Gerard Henderson: When you say you’re voting for the Vice President, are you suggesting that if he wins Biden wouldn’t serve four years?

Barbara Heineback: No. A month or two at best.

Gerard Henderson: Well what a scoop. You heard it at The Sydney Institute. But thanks for a great presentation.

Barbara Heineback: Thank you very much for having me.